Copyright: 1996 - 2024
BSEE - KB3UON
RF Cafe began life in 1996 as "RF Tools" in an AOL screen name web space totaling
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formulas and reference material while performing my work as an RF system and circuit
design engineer. The World Wide Web (Internet) was largely an unknown entity at
the time and bandwidth was a scarce commodity. Dial-up modems blazed along at 14.4 kbps
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Just wanna to counsult for return loss - RF Cafe Forums
RF Cafe Forums closed its virtual doors in 2012 mainly due to other social media
platforms dominating public commenting venues. RF Cafe Forums began sometime around
August of 2003 and was quite well-attended for many years. By 2010, Facebook and
Twitter were overwhelmingly dominating online personal interaction, and RF Cafe
Forums activity dropped off precipitously. If the folks at
phpBB would release a version with integrated
sign-in from the major social media platforms, I would resurrect the RF Cafe Forums,
but until then it is probably not worth the effort. Regardless, there are still
lots of great posts in the archive that ware worth looking at.
Below are the old forum threads, including responses to the original posts.
|-- Amateur Radio
Gripes & Humor
-- CAE, CAD, &
Test & Measurement
Post subject: Just wanna to counsult for return loss
postPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 4:41 am
know what is the meaning of return loss for S11,S12,S21 and S22?
postPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:16 am
Return loss is only applicable
to S11 and S22, in fact S11 and S22 are return loss. Return loss is
the ratio of reflected power to incident power.
Unread postPosted: Fri May 20,
2005 1:59 am
Mar 15, 2005 11:43 pm
I agree with the previous reply. S11 is input return loss and S22
is output return loss. That usually calculated in dB.
and output return losses are caused by the impedance mismatch. That's
why matching circuit comes to the picture.
and it's also related
to VSWR (Voltage Standing Wave Ratio).
I hope it helps.
subject: am i right?
Unread postPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:16 am
Thanks to all,
In order to measure the S-parameter, How
many source should us provided?
Is it two? if yes, means
input source to measurement S11 and S21
Output source is
to measure S22, s12
Unread postPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:04 pm
need 2 sources to measure S11, S122 and also the 2 other S-Parameters,
Each measurement will give you a set of 2 parameters,
with one port terminated (input or output), while a source is connected
to the other one.
The S-Parameters are related to each other
b1,2 are the reflected waves, a1,2 are the incident waves.
these 2 equations you can get the ratios:
S11=b1/a1; a2=0 (Output
port is terminated)
S12=b1/a2; a1=0 (Input port is terminated)
S21=b2/a1; a2=0 (Output port is terminated)
S22=b2/a2; a1=0 (Input
port is terminated)
Hope this helps.
Post subject: higher value or lower value for return loss
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:11 am
which return loss
value is more better, higher value or lower value?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun
21, 2005 12:59 am
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:43 pm
For return loss values, the more negative is the better.
-15 dB is better than -10dB.
In other words, the
better your matching networks, there will be lesser loss, so the loss
values will be more negative in a sense.
I hope it helps. :D
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:42 am
definition of Return Loss is as follows:
-20*log(S11) or S22,
whichever way you're looking.
Therefore, you would want return
loss to be as high as possible.
If you are talking about just changing
S11 to dB (take the minus sign out of the above equation), that is not
technically return loss. For that, you would want it to be as negative
It's just terminology, though, so I'm just nitpicking.
Some people get rather upset, however, when you say you have a negative
return loss :)
Hope that helps,