Search RFC: |                                     
Please support my efforts by ADVERTISING!
About | Sitemap | Homepage Archive
Serving a Pleasant Blend of Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow™
Vintage Magazines
Electronics World
Popular Electronics
Radio & TV News
QST | Pop Science
Popular Mechanics
Radio-Craft
Radio-Electronics
Short Wave Craft
Electronics | OFA
Saturday Eve Post
Please Support My Advertisers!
RF Cafe Sponsors
Aegis Power | Centric RF | RFCT
Alliance Test | Empower RF
Isotec | Reactel | SF Circuits

Formulas & Data

Electronics | RF
Mathematics
Mechanics | Physics


Calvin & Phineas

kmblatt83@aol.com

Resources

Articles, Forums, Radar
Magazines, Museum
Radio Service Data
Software, Videos


Artificial Intelligence

Entertainment

Crosswords, Humor Cogitations, Podcast
Quotes, Quizzes

Parts & Services

1000s of Listings

        Software:

Please Donate
RF Cascade Workbook | RF Symbols for Office
RF Symbols for Visio | RF Stencils for Visio
Espresso Engineering Workbook
Temwell Amplifiers - RF Cafe

WCDMA Back-Off Power Calculation - RF Cafe Forums

The original RF Cafe Forums were shut down in late 2012 due to maintenance issues - primarily having to spend time purging garbage posts from the board. At some point I might start the RF Cafe Forums again if the phpBB software gets better at filtering spam.

Below are the old forum threads, including responses to the original posts.

-- Amateur Radio
-- Anecdotes, Gripes & Humor
-- Antennas
-- CAE, CAD, & Software
-- Circuits & Components
-- Employment & Interviews
-- Miscellany
-- Swap Shop
-- Systems
-- Test & Measurement
-- Webmaster

enricolia
Post subject: WCDMA Back-Off Power Calculation Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:01 am

Lieutenant

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:57 am
Posts: 2
Location: Belgium
Hello All,

I want to know if there is any formula or calculation we can do for back-off power in WCDMA systems.

Supposing I have the transistor datasheet with P1dB, so how much power I must back off from that value for one WCDMA carrier (considering WCDMA is a spread signal and P1dB normally is measured with CW signal).

Furthermore if there is any calculation involving WDCMA composite power and power per carrier. I heard that Pcomp = Pcarrier + 20 Log (n), where n is the number of users on that radio sector. Others say that this calculation follows exponential rule and not logarithmic.


Please let me know what you can do for help me.



Thank you in advance.


Top

IR
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:28 pm

Site Admin


Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 373
Location: Germany
Hello Enrico,

The most important thing to know is the PAR (Peak to Average Ratio) of the signal, which is affected by the modulation scheme, filter involved, clipping etc. Once you know this value you can derive the average power in your system. When you find the peak value (PEP), check if this value exceeds the P1dB of the transistor. It should not exceed the P1dB.

Usually the PA is working up to P1dB in order to allow reasonable efficiency (Linearity and efficiency are opposite to each other). You have to see if at P1dB, the ACPR level still meets the specification.


Top

enricolia
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:05 pm

Lieutenant

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:57 am
Posts: 2
Location: Belgium
Hi IR,

Thank you for the reply.

You are absolutely right for the generic question. Let's try to relate some specific numbers.

For UMTS (WCDMA) single carrier, QPSK Modulation, Channel Bandwidth 3.84 MHz, the PAR is 7 to 10 dB depending on clippling.

Question is : How much back-off in power is necessary from the P1dB using a multicarrier system ?

I am not sure if I should back-off 7 to 10 dB from the P1dB of transistor datasheet subtracting for more carriers (n) 10 or 20 Log rule.


Top

IR
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:20 pm

Site Admin


Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 373
Location: Germany
Hello Enrico,

From my experience you should back off 7-10dB. Then, measure your ACPR and see if this is enough.


Top

FSomma
Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:50 am
Hello Enrico,

The 3GPP for WCDMA HSDP defines different Tests Models. Each test model has a special configuration definition that makes the Test Model proper to an specific measurement. For ex, Test Model 1 is defined, so that the signal has the specific characteristics to measure ACLR, Spurious Emission, IMD; Test Model 2 is for output power dynamics, TM3 for Peak code demain power, TM4 for EVM...etc.
The most peaking model is the TM2 w/ 32 DPCH and the CCDF is as follow:
10% --- 3.77dB
1% --- 7.27dB
0.1% --- 9.81dB
0.01% --- 10.71dB
0.001% --- 11.2dB
0.0001% --- 11.24dB



Posted  11/12/2012
Temwell Amplifiers - RF Cafe